First post on the DIY forum, looking for some real advice instead of pressure sale tactics from "pros" and I'm also not sure if this belongs here or in Basements, Atics, and Crawl Spaces, but here goes.
Link to PICTURES: here
1950's 40'x24' rectangle house with a full basement. House caught fire, mostly water damage from fire department. Guy died, another guy buys it to flip or keep as rental (he owns other houses on street already). Guy tore house down to studs, pretty much redid the entire thing (multiple neighbors attest), ripped out overgrown yard, lots of overgrowth, graded entire property, the whole 9 yards. Simple single gable roof running East West. Big long continuous gutters, one on North side, one on South side, each draining to a downspout on East side and run away from foundation adequate amount, no downspouts on West side at all. Leak on West side wall/North wall corner area where PVC septic line exits. Yard is pretty well graded. West side could probably be better but still not sloping in. Basement has block walls. Dry Lok coating on inside walls. Leak through block behind electric panel (no Dry Lok) but runs down wall and drains directly into my sump pump pit below. Rest of basement has been amazingly dry considering its age until recently. Lived here 4 years. Decided to finish out my basement. Wasn't until I started framing out walls (stand off block walls at least 2" or more) that I got into a corner that was wet. Something growing, puddle about the size of my palm on the floor. Bleach out corner, chip off flaking Dry Lok till it's good, applied 3 coats of waterproofing paint (Behr brand) and let dry. Puddle comes back after some heavy rains, again, just a small puddle right where slab and block meet. Saturate the #&@* out of the porous patch job above the leak in corner where PVC septic line exits through block with waterproof paint. No leaks running from it on the inside over paint. Puddle still comes back over maybe 24 hour period.
Call two companies for estimates, both say they need $5,000 from me for an interior perimeter footer drain system and that's the only way to fix this tiny little leak I have during worst time of year with super saturated soils with the snow melt and rain.
Both also tell me I probably have an exterior perimeter footing drain as in the side wall of my concrete cast sump pit is a round tile that water dumps out of shortly after heavy rains (measured it out at about 3.2GPM recently with a heavy rain). Both claim it's obviously working.
A few days later I notice water leaking through my new waterproof paint right where I stopped chipping away the original Dry Lok paint and running down the wall. Almost like water is running down wall behind Dry Lok and then comes out and through the new Behr basement paint.
I originally though my small leak was from below slab seeping up but with water coming through wall, now I'm thinking my block cores are full of water and maybe the corner leak was water pressure in cores coming across and back up to the corner. Decide to dig outside the 1 foot down to see what the exit of the PVC septic line looks like, maybe water is getting into cores via porous patch job like on the inside.
Find weird stuff. Called guy I bought from and ask what's up, says he doesn't remember exactly but that he didn't put downspouts on West end of house as he didn't want it saturating/filling septic tank and that a lot of the other houses he owns/rents on the street (same houses) had old downspout systems that ran into tile below grade but he has no idea where they go. Apparently previous owner wanted stone face on the house and poured a $&*!!# concrete "shelf" about 3" below existing grade to set stone on. That explains that chunk... Then there's another chunk of new concrete I find right next to where PVC septic line exits. Guy doesn't remember/know what that is. Maybe just excess from making the patch where PVC septic line exited?
Dig out more along foundation, dump hose into hole and see what happens. Water starts draining RAPIDLY downwards right under this random piece of concrete. Bust it out and just find a bunch of stone. Dig stone out and finally hit what I guess is the water line right now? If I dig any more, I just keep pulling up stone, water level stays the same. No more draining.
If I remove water (shop vac it out), more water rushes in from... what looks to me to be a tench of stone that the PVC septic line is sitting on. Almost like... maybe it existed for the previous septic line system he tore out? Or maybe he trenched too deep and backfilled with stone instead of dirt? I don't know.
If I ADD a bunch of water to my hole that's now got standing water in the bottom, it drains out and looks like it goes INTO the stone trench the PVC septic line is sitting on.
Haven't dug deeper to see if there's porous areas in patch on bottom side of PVC pipe exit, maybe water's getting in somehow? Can't see with all the water in the way. There's definitely a faint black coating on the exterior of the block wall face, original waterproofing? When I'm dumping water into my hole I run inside and see if I get any more water leaks, hear sounds, or if I can detect any additional water flow into my sump pit from that tile. No change, haven't seen any more water. In fact, the little puddle in basement on the floor is drying up, getting smaller as we've been a few days now without rain.
So... can anyone help me understand what's going on? If I go dig somewhere else along my block wall outside, will I run into the same "water table" again at the same depth right now? Or will I be able to go deeper because I'm digging out soil and not stone?
Does it sound pretty safe to say that amazingly the Dry Lok is keeping water out and even more amazingly the mortar joint between the footer and my block wall isn't leaking? Do I even have an exterior perimeter footer drain? Did those exist in 1955?
What if I dig down about 1ft and out maybe 4ft and lay down 6mil plastic sheeting that goes up against exposed above grade wall, then backfill over it and grade. Then... if I dig up and put in a tile parallel to the West wall that slopes down as it runs North to the front of my property where there's a hill and ditch that I might be able to daylight the tile to out the side of the hill?
I'm pretty bummed out that my basement dream has come to a halt over a damp corner and a palm-sized puddle occuring during the wet season. I'm only investing $4,500 into basement (all my labor and time, nothing fancy, just more comfortable than block walls and concrete slab floor) and I might be moving within 1-2 years from now. I was contemplating just waterproof painting the walls again, caulking the slab/wall seam, painting over it and onto the floor a little. Caulking the inside corner where my pressure treated 2x4 bottom plate rests on concrete floor, creating a "moat" around finished area. My stud walls stand at least 2" off block wall and a section of my basement won't be finished (mechanical/laundry) so I also have access to void between walls. I thought I could put one of those vertical post-type fans blowing into void and kind of create a "vortex" or a flowing "air curtain" around my finished area to promote evaporation of any water and on the other side where the air "exits", put a dehumidifier. So honestly, I don't want to put too much into this water issue ($5,000 interior perimeter drain system and I have to take down a few of my stud walls I just put up) but if that's truly the only solution and associated cost then maybe I should bite the bullet and do it since we have sales disclosure forms here in Indiana and I'm pretty sure one is about knowledge of water leaks in basements. Nobody wants to buy a leaky basement house if the basement is unfinished and especially not if it's hidden and finished out, ready for disaster to grow.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Any thoughts? What have I got myself into? Please help!
Link to PICTURES: here
Also, apologies for the length, but hey, the more info the better and hopefully it helps get some better detailed answers!
Thanks,
Mike
Link to PICTURES: here
1950's 40'x24' rectangle house with a full basement. House caught fire, mostly water damage from fire department. Guy died, another guy buys it to flip or keep as rental (he owns other houses on street already). Guy tore house down to studs, pretty much redid the entire thing (multiple neighbors attest), ripped out overgrown yard, lots of overgrowth, graded entire property, the whole 9 yards. Simple single gable roof running East West. Big long continuous gutters, one on North side, one on South side, each draining to a downspout on East side and run away from foundation adequate amount, no downspouts on West side at all. Leak on West side wall/North wall corner area where PVC septic line exits. Yard is pretty well graded. West side could probably be better but still not sloping in. Basement has block walls. Dry Lok coating on inside walls. Leak through block behind electric panel (no Dry Lok) but runs down wall and drains directly into my sump pump pit below. Rest of basement has been amazingly dry considering its age until recently. Lived here 4 years. Decided to finish out my basement. Wasn't until I started framing out walls (stand off block walls at least 2" or more) that I got into a corner that was wet. Something growing, puddle about the size of my palm on the floor. Bleach out corner, chip off flaking Dry Lok till it's good, applied 3 coats of waterproofing paint (Behr brand) and let dry. Puddle comes back after some heavy rains, again, just a small puddle right where slab and block meet. Saturate the #&@* out of the porous patch job above the leak in corner where PVC septic line exits through block with waterproof paint. No leaks running from it on the inside over paint. Puddle still comes back over maybe 24 hour period.
Call two companies for estimates, both say they need $5,000 from me for an interior perimeter footer drain system and that's the only way to fix this tiny little leak I have during worst time of year with super saturated soils with the snow melt and rain.
Both also tell me I probably have an exterior perimeter footing drain as in the side wall of my concrete cast sump pit is a round tile that water dumps out of shortly after heavy rains (measured it out at about 3.2GPM recently with a heavy rain). Both claim it's obviously working.
A few days later I notice water leaking through my new waterproof paint right where I stopped chipping away the original Dry Lok paint and running down the wall. Almost like water is running down wall behind Dry Lok and then comes out and through the new Behr basement paint.
I originally though my small leak was from below slab seeping up but with water coming through wall, now I'm thinking my block cores are full of water and maybe the corner leak was water pressure in cores coming across and back up to the corner. Decide to dig outside the 1 foot down to see what the exit of the PVC septic line looks like, maybe water is getting into cores via porous patch job like on the inside.
Find weird stuff. Called guy I bought from and ask what's up, says he doesn't remember exactly but that he didn't put downspouts on West end of house as he didn't want it saturating/filling septic tank and that a lot of the other houses he owns/rents on the street (same houses) had old downspout systems that ran into tile below grade but he has no idea where they go. Apparently previous owner wanted stone face on the house and poured a $&*!!# concrete "shelf" about 3" below existing grade to set stone on. That explains that chunk... Then there's another chunk of new concrete I find right next to where PVC septic line exits. Guy doesn't remember/know what that is. Maybe just excess from making the patch where PVC septic line exited?
Dig out more along foundation, dump hose into hole and see what happens. Water starts draining RAPIDLY downwards right under this random piece of concrete. Bust it out and just find a bunch of stone. Dig stone out and finally hit what I guess is the water line right now? If I dig any more, I just keep pulling up stone, water level stays the same. No more draining.
If I remove water (shop vac it out), more water rushes in from... what looks to me to be a tench of stone that the PVC septic line is sitting on. Almost like... maybe it existed for the previous septic line system he tore out? Or maybe he trenched too deep and backfilled with stone instead of dirt? I don't know.
If I ADD a bunch of water to my hole that's now got standing water in the bottom, it drains out and looks like it goes INTO the stone trench the PVC septic line is sitting on.
Haven't dug deeper to see if there's porous areas in patch on bottom side of PVC pipe exit, maybe water's getting in somehow? Can't see with all the water in the way. There's definitely a faint black coating on the exterior of the block wall face, original waterproofing? When I'm dumping water into my hole I run inside and see if I get any more water leaks, hear sounds, or if I can detect any additional water flow into my sump pit from that tile. No change, haven't seen any more water. In fact, the little puddle in basement on the floor is drying up, getting smaller as we've been a few days now without rain.
So... can anyone help me understand what's going on? If I go dig somewhere else along my block wall outside, will I run into the same "water table" again at the same depth right now? Or will I be able to go deeper because I'm digging out soil and not stone?
Does it sound pretty safe to say that amazingly the Dry Lok is keeping water out and even more amazingly the mortar joint between the footer and my block wall isn't leaking? Do I even have an exterior perimeter footer drain? Did those exist in 1955?
What if I dig down about 1ft and out maybe 4ft and lay down 6mil plastic sheeting that goes up against exposed above grade wall, then backfill over it and grade. Then... if I dig up and put in a tile parallel to the West wall that slopes down as it runs North to the front of my property where there's a hill and ditch that I might be able to daylight the tile to out the side of the hill?
I'm pretty bummed out that my basement dream has come to a halt over a damp corner and a palm-sized puddle occuring during the wet season. I'm only investing $4,500 into basement (all my labor and time, nothing fancy, just more comfortable than block walls and concrete slab floor) and I might be moving within 1-2 years from now. I was contemplating just waterproof painting the walls again, caulking the slab/wall seam, painting over it and onto the floor a little. Caulking the inside corner where my pressure treated 2x4 bottom plate rests on concrete floor, creating a "moat" around finished area. My stud walls stand at least 2" off block wall and a section of my basement won't be finished (mechanical/laundry) so I also have access to void between walls. I thought I could put one of those vertical post-type fans blowing into void and kind of create a "vortex" or a flowing "air curtain" around my finished area to promote evaporation of any water and on the other side where the air "exits", put a dehumidifier. So honestly, I don't want to put too much into this water issue ($5,000 interior perimeter drain system and I have to take down a few of my stud walls I just put up) but if that's truly the only solution and associated cost then maybe I should bite the bullet and do it since we have sales disclosure forms here in Indiana and I'm pretty sure one is about knowledge of water leaks in basements. Nobody wants to buy a leaky basement house if the basement is unfinished and especially not if it's hidden and finished out, ready for disaster to grow.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Any thoughts? What have I got myself into? Please help!
Link to PICTURES: here
Also, apologies for the length, but hey, the more info the better and hopefully it helps get some better detailed answers!
Thanks,
Mike
Leaking Basement
